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    Food for thought

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    civicminded

    Posts : 85
    Join date : 2010-12-10

    Food for thought

    Post  civicminded on Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:48 am

    Was looking at some past TT results and noticed a maximum of 2-3 entries in MCM, MCS, SM, amd SSM classes. If these Miatas are essentially stock, with different levels of prep, wouldn't it be better if they were combined with the ST 3, 4, 5, and 6 classes?
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    TOMJIGSAW

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    Age : 60
    Location : LONG ISLAND, NY

    Re: Food for thought

    Post  TOMJIGSAW on Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:55 am

    Thanks for the inquiry -

    Follow up question - better for who? (or is it whom)

    If we did what you suggested we would not
    have a Miata Challenge series.

    It has its own rules for car prep
    MC Street
    MC Modified
    MC Unlimited.

    Drivers can choose to be in St4, etc
    but since we have a series just for Miatas
    we assign them to that class.

    Tom M
    Chairman
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    Oleg P

    Posts : 90
    Join date : 2012-07-31
    Location : NYC

    Re: Food for thought

    Post  Oleg P on Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:08 pm

    Last year I decided to run this year in Miata Challenge in order to not be harassed by actual race cars Smile

    That said, the rules are very different between Miata Challenge (I'm going to abbreviate it to MC) and ST. For one, MC does not just map to ST but goes all the way up to unlimited. The only two requirements for MC Unlimited are stock floor pan between the front and rear subframe attachment points and tail lights must be in the stock locations.

    Second, MC rules provide for a lot of leeway when it comes to modifying/deleting non-essential parts on the car. For example, my car has no plastic door panels because they interfere with my elbows in my race seat, but I also don't have a roll cage. This is not a legal ST configuration per my reading of ST rules.

    Third, MC rules are infinitely easier to read than ST rules. Some of it is due to their relative lengths and some of it is simply because the rules are simpler. It's a lot easier to class oneself in MC than it is in ST. Personally I don't think I ever managed to figure out what ST my car would be, if any.

    Lastly, the rules are so different you would need to examine each car individually to determine where in ST it would place. For example, a Miata with an LS1 V8 in it is legal for MC Street and it would have points left for suspension modifications, however it would be limited to street tires (140+ treadwear). My car has a stock engine and I am at the top end of MC Modified.

    I was going to link to MC rules but apparently I have to wait 7 days to be able to do that. Plug "miata challenge rules" into your favorite search engine to get there.

    That said, at the last event one Miata driver wanted to run ST and not MC.

    This was all for MC. I was not aware that SM/SSM competed in time trials.
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    civicminded

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    Re: Food for thought

    Post  civicminded on Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:39 am

    I felt that with the limited amount of entries for the MCM, MCS, MCU classes, that the Miata guys could run for trophies if they ran with the ST4/5 classes.
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    wreckerboy

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    Join date : 2010-12-06

    Re: Food for thought

    Post  wreckerboy on Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:19 am

    Additionally, the SM (Spec Miata) and SSM (Showroom Spec Miata) cars are prepped to a level underneath what is allowed in the EMRA ST or SCCA IT classes, and thus are even allowed even fewer modifications than the Challenge cars.

    It just goes to prove that there are 900,000 first gen Miatas alone and there is nearly a class for each one!
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    Oleg P

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    Location : NYC

    Re: Food for thought

    Post  Oleg P on Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:05 pm

    I read ST rules again, with more success this time, and my conclusions are:

    SM/SSM - gutted interior + 15" wheels - 2 exceptions - bump from ST-5 base to ST-4; for MC: Toyos are not Street class legal -> probably MC Modified

    My car - gutted interior + 15" wheels + aftermarket brakes - 4 exceptions - Tuner

    Being in Tuner is better than not having a class, but being in Miata Challenge (with 4 subclasses to choose from - they added Super Modified this year) is better than being in Tuner Smile
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    quikgt

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    Join date : 2011-03-19

    Re: Food for thought

    Post  quikgt on Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:23 am

    Toyos 888/RA1 are considered DOT, and are street class legal. I would think your Miata would be ST4, with the mods, and should be competitive there. The Miata classes do seem sparse, and maybe could be absorbed into the ST classes.
    Wreckerboys' quote seems appropriate... "It just goes to prove that there are 900,000 first gen Miatas alone and there is nearly a class for each one".
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    Oleg P

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    Re: Food for thought

    Post  Oleg P on Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:22 am

    Toyos at 100 treadwear are not allowed in MC Street. It's in the rules. Neither is removal of carpet forward of driver seat.

    I listed ST exceptions for my car in the previous post, I'm confused how you figure I am ST-4 legal.

    Street tired Miatas (this again is *all* of MC Street) are not going to be competitive against Miatas on Hoosiers as allowed by ST rules. Check lap time difference between MCM and MCS in this year's results, and then MCM to ST-4. (Unless said street tired Miata has a V8 in it, in which case it won't be in ST-4 either.)

    I'll echo what Tom said: "If we did what you suggested we would not have a Miata Challenge series."
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    TOMJIGSAW

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    Age : 60
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    Re: Food for thought

    Post  TOMJIGSAW on Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:13 am

    At our last event at Lime Rock
    we had 6 students in Miata challenge as well as
    5 returning entrants.

    Sorry to say but this Forum discussion is moot.

    Thanks for the input.

    Miata Challenge will stay.

    Respectfully,

    Tom M

    EMRA Chairman
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    vortexblue

    Posts : 7
    Join date : 2012-03-19
    Location : Hillsborough, NJ

    Re: Food for thought

    Post  vortexblue on Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:21 pm

    Thanks.
    I like my MC street class. The rules are clear and simple, and the playing field within the classes stays fairly level. Attendance in the north east is *extremely* thin compared to the West Coast or Texas Miata Challenge. Maybe in time, this will change.

    Non-racers do get excited when they see how stock my car is and that they might be able to get on the track themselves. Too many classes are a drag,I agree, but the formula is working well in the rest of the country; the east coast is just really slow to catch on to trends.

    You can give my trophy to the ST guys if you must, just keep scoring us in our respective MC classes.
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    Oleg P

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    Re: Food for thought

    Post  Oleg P on Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:54 pm

    Since the earlier posts the following two things happened:

    1. MC Street has had rather healthy competition.
    2. MC Modified and Unlimited have been empty.

    I considered running in Tuner but some of my slower tires were non-DOT slicks. Despite being slower they were not Tuner Modified legal. Running a stock power Miata in Tuner Unlimited seemed a bit silly. I think next year I'll do it anyway if there are no Miatas to compete against.

    Reading Tuner rules again I noticed that Tuner Modified requires tires with UTQG >= 50 which disqualifies both Hoosier R6 and Hoosier A6, either at 40. Which means, essentially, that all Tuner Modified cars must be on Toyos or Nittos or similar. I had no idea.

    All in all, MC Street seems like a very promising class.

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