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    how are time trials run

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    codeblack

    Posts : 5
    Join date : 2013-01-05

    how are time trials run

    Post  codeblack on Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:24 pm

    This will be my first season with EMRA, I'm coming over from NASA hpde and would like to know if time trials are mixed with hpde.
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    Dave Z

    Posts : 77
    Join date : 2010-12-06

    how the time trials work

    Post  Dave Z on Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:32 pm

    At most events time trial participants are split into three groups--Red, White and Blue designations--in ascending order of car performance potential/driver experience. Students (HPDE) usually run in their own group--sometimes combined with the Red group depending on car count. If you have no or limited track experience you will be assigned to the Student group and your day will be split between classroom and track sessions (with an instructor). With track experience you may be assigned to the Red group and will be observed. Those displaying competence in the Student group will be signed off by the instructor and issued a Time Trial license and then can compete in the Time Trials at the next event. You can ask for an instructor regardless of the group you run in if you wish to learn the quick way around. Fast cars with limited experience drivers often start off in the Red group and then will be reassigned to the faster groups with more experience under the belt. Welcome to EMRA.
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    codeblack

    Posts : 5
    Join date : 2013-01-05

    Re: how are time trials run

    Post  codeblack on Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:01 am

    Thanks for the reply. Do you run your time trials with points byes and designated passing zones.
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    Dave Z

    Posts : 77
    Join date : 2010-12-06

    how are time trials run

    Post  Dave Z on Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:49 pm

    In seasons before the last one EMRA did not have point byes as a requirement--suggested, yes but not required except for certain tracks that had the rule as a track requirement. Last season we started making a point bye (one point per car) a requirement for the obvious safety reasons.
    We pass in designated zones (explained at the drivers meeting). Last season the faster groups were allowed additional zones if the track design is accomodating. From an observers standpoint I (as EMRA's photographer--and occassional time trialer) saw a lot of "pushing the zones to the limit-and beyond" resulting in some unsafe moves. We will be discussing the issue to determine which way to go in the coming season. Anyone with an opinion on this subject can express their feelings through this forum--or attend a board meeting (as an observer) to make your wishes known.
    EMRA, as an organization is very conscious of the nature of our TT participants--mostly limited budgets, driving our daily rides and looking for thrilling but safe outlets on professional tracks. Metal to metal contact is not part of the program and I can say we have had a very good record in that regard.
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    Oleg P

    Posts : 90
    Join date : 2012-07-31
    Location : NYC

    Re: how are time trials run

    Post  Oleg P on Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:38 am

    I ran TT with both EMRA and NASA last year, so here is a more or less direct comparison.

    "TT mixed with HPDE" - run groups:

    In nasa (northeast), one's registration choices are 4 hpde groups (1-4), one TT group, and the instructor group. That's 6 groups. The way schedule is set up, some of these groups are combined. Typical possibilities are:

    hpde 1, 2, 3, 4+tt, instructors
    hpde 1, 2, 3, 4+instructors, tt

    Depending on how many people register for each of de4, instructor or tt groups, you get different combinations during events.

    The key here is that nasa's program is primarily hpde and when there are enough tt entries they get their own run group, otherwise tt'ers are thrown into whichever run group has fewer cars.

    In EMRA, one's registration options are student, red, white or blue. Of those 4 groups the last 3 are for licensed, solo TT drivers, and the first one is for instructed students. Instructors do not have their own run group, but usually run in the blue group (which is "fastest") because a) they typically are fastest and b) blue offers the best spacing with the student group that they go out as passengers in.

    Depending on registrations, emra may combine red/white or blue/white or student/red. In all cases there is a single student run group and at least two TT run groups.

    "TT mixed with HPDE" - the actual mixing:

    In EMRA nearly every solo driver is a competitor. I imagine it is possible to be in the solo run group and not be competing, but I don't personally know anyone who has done it last year. Put differently, every car in every TT run group has a transponder on it, and therefore timing and scoring knows what times that car runs.

    This allows the entirety of each run group to be gridded by time.

    When nasa combines de4 or instructors with tt, some cars have transponders and some don't, and the Corvettes without transponders start right behind Miatas with transponders. In emra everyone has a transponder therefore this simply does not happen.

    The other difference between nasa and emra is that emra has multiple TT groups, if the entry count warrants it. If Corvettes and Miatas (with drivers of similar ability) are in the same session it is typically because there is a total of 20 cars on the track. With emra you tend to have a lot more clean track before you start catching cars.

    Point-bys and passing zones:

    Emra has them. Part of the reason is emra does not require people to have years of track experience to drive solo (most people are signed off after a single weekend). Therefore there are drivers who would not necessarily be comfortable with open passing.

    Another part of the reason is due to gridding everyone by time and multiple TT run groups, there is simply not as much need to get around people in corners.

    Finally, emra has fewer cars in each group than nasa.

    You should come to an emra event and check it out. The first one in April will be at Lime Rock which last year has had awesome turnout.

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