Civicminded -- a couple of answers

Pocono South, CCW direction, cars exiting the pit, hug the wall and allow for cars entering the oval from the infield, to pass cleanly on the inside. There is also a lot more space on the banking to make for safer TT/racing. To make a left turn into the infield at pit exit, would be dangerous.
At East, the pit exit in a CCW direction, is actually in the direction of traffic flow, so cars can merge easier.
Recently, I've seen comments on the website that seem to throw caution to the wind. Hope that the new board will consider the safety of the competitors as the #1 priority.

Concerning the idea of changing courses over the 2 day weekend. What's the use of having a practice day for TT on Saturday when the course will be changed the next day?

Count me in for the CCW direction at Pocono South/East. In all my years racing with EMRA, we have never run East or South in a clockwise direction. Can someone clarify what direction we'll be racing/TT? NASA (Lightning/Thunderbolt May 17th-19th) will be getting my entry fees if we're going CW.

Chris you were given the opportunity to assist with safety and tt and you turned it down.
I agree if the tt is only sunday, there is no point to having diff configurations on diff days
What do you think about having tt events each day??
Im just trying to get the consensus and what people want to do bc this idea has been talked about
I think the racers would enjoy two diff configurations. Just a thought at the moment
Thanks jimmy and i agree but i think for racing there may be some safety concerns so
What we are planning is config 3 in the ccw direction.

Quickgt what wrong with switching things up. Just bc youve never done it doesnt mean it isnt better
Have you ever run the southeast course? Its all new. In all your years racing we have never run the southeast course bc it didnt exist
So yea south is cw and east is cw but this is totally different.
Im just saying.

And while we are on the subject ill ask another question even tho i only got ONE response, thank you Chris i appreciate the feedback
We have 3 limerock events. What does everyone think about trying to run the rolex layout (2 chicanes)
For the second event only and doing the traditional layout dor the other two
Again just an idea being tossed around

Thanks

Cory. Couldn't commit to an elected post at this time, but used the forum to address some concerns in the hope that I'd get a response. We now seem to have that ball rolling.

-Would TT events on both days be for points towards the championships? This now involves an overnight stay, payment for 2 TT events, meals for 2 days.
-Marys' schedule post on the 2.15 mile course indicated option 3. Will we be using the chicane after South?
-Concerning "Switching things up". There are NO tracks on our schedule that run CCW. LRP, Summit Point, Pocono North, Lightning, Thunderbolt, are all CW. What's wrong with keeping the only CCW track we currently run intact?
-Won't comment on LRP configuration as myself and friends have never been able to make the 84db requirement, and usually run with other clubs when LRP is scheduled.

hi chris
i only posted schedule didn't indicate course being used for pocono, lol, leaving that up to professionals! and just fyi lrp noise limit is 86 dB SO IT WOULD BE COOL IF THAT MADE A DIFFERENCE FOR YOUR CAR, MAYBE WITH A PAIR OF SUPER TRAPS YOU COULD PASS, RICH TRYING THEM AS HE PASSES IN INFIELD BUT IS TOO LOUD WHEN DOWN SHIFTING INTO TURN 1
MARY

"Quickgt what wrong with switching things up. Just bc youve never done it doesnt mean it isnt better
Have you ever run the southeast course? Its all new. In all your years racing we have never run the southeast course bc it didnt exist
So yea south is cw and east is cw but this is totally different."


SBRacing. South and Easy are both CCW, not CW, and if you really wanted to switch things up, why not try other tracks in a CCW direction. It certainly looks like some board members don't want to run CCW. I'd be surprised if the new Safety Track is run CCW.

You mentioned that we'd be running config. 3, and "it's official". Regarding your other post,.... "On a personal level, i would like to try different configurations in different rotations. I asked the track director at pocono about safety issues for diff rotations and am waiting to hear back.".... Would this mean that the "official" config. is subject to change, based on input from Pocono?

Hey Chris
I understand not being able to commit to that but there is plenty to do without an official position. We need people who care
To be able to talk about these things with, you know? Thanks for the feedback thats what I need to be able to decide on whats best for
The event and what most people would like to do.

1 yes that would make it a points event each day of the weekend. Some people like this
And some dont. Theres nothing pointing either way
2 yes chicane after south
3 you are totally right about that being the only ccw track we run at the moment. This is the stuff i need to hear. Thats a good reason to keep it that way. We will run NYST in both directions this year. If one way is better than the other
We will talk about how we want to run it for next year. But for the moment we will run it in both directions.
4 since i have been racing i have under my bench the "limerock" and "bridgehampton" exhaust systems
It is 86 db which is ridiculous, i mean my truck is louder than that but ive never gone there without a restriction
And getting a rotary to pass is def not easy but we did it. And without losing a lot of power
I know they have two dates per year For unmuffled but those are spoken for.

Thanks for the input it does help. And i will keep you posted on what i hear back from pocono
About the safety issues with running cw for future discussions

Quickgt
Yes we run south and east in the ccw direction as we always have, i forgot to put the second c there, my bad. The point is this isa completlely new configuration that we have never run before so really it hasnt been run in either direction and all im saying is we can do it however we want. I thought it was setup for cw from the track maps tom gave me but I was wrong and they told me it can be run in either direction. Most want to run ccw and config 3 seems the most popular option so this what we are going to run.
Also we will be running NYST in both directions.

I speak solely for myself unless I post an answer as official. Which is what I did. I dont speak for any other board member
So please dont assume that I do or post up speculation as to what you think "some board members" want.
I think you can tell from my posts that im trying to see what the drivers want.

We are running configuration 3 in the counter clockwise direction. That is what you should expect
And there wont be any change.
The input from pocono will be for future discussions of the event after we see how this track layout is
And really be able to discern for ourselves what if any safety issues there are and how the pavement
Transitions are, if we like the layout or want to try a different one etc. asking the drivers and corner workers
To see how it is.

I hope this helps

SBRacing wrote:
1 yes that would make it a points event each day of the weekend. Some people like this

Does this mean the schedule is still not final?

Cory. I've been an instructor with EMRA, since 2006 when Marc Albert was TT chair, and I've always helped when I can. Will continue helping, as myself and budddies like the atmosphere, people, and running with EMRA. Feel free to ask for help if/when you see me pitside.

Would be curious to see your LRP exhaust. I'm sure Richie, myself and a few of my buddies, would appreciate some input. I've tried turn downs, drivers' side exit(away from the meter), and an assortment of mufflers, but 9000 rpms' in a Honda is hard to muffle. The muffler would also need to be around 4" as I wouldn't have clearance to load on the trailer.

A thought. We have 2 dates for the NY Safety Track this year. Maybe we can run the 1st CCW and the second CW and see which direction is best for us. I'd like another CCW track. It would help even out my tire wear.

No the schedule is finalized
Pocono is finalized

I was looking for input from everyone
And discussing ideas for future events
Sorry i thought that was clear

Chris thats awesome. Thanks and i def will.
We actually made The rx7 exhaust with a y pipe
out of the header And dual mufflers. No turn downs
Or anything. Have you tried a pre silencer or a second
Muffler upstream? Like where a test pipe would
Replace the cat or something like that. I know its not
Ideal for power etc but if everyone has to do it
Its not a disasvantage you know. Just thinking outloud
Here but it is and has to be a bit of a compromise but
Thats the challenge.

As far as NYST goes we are running both cw and ccw directions

civicminded wrote:
Would be curious to see your LRP exhaust. I'm sure Richie, myself and a few of my buddies, would appreciate some input. I've tried turn downs, drivers' side exit(away from the meter), and an assortment of mufflers, but 9000 rpms' in a Honda is hard to muffle. The muffler would also need to be around 4" as I wouldn't have clearance to load on the trailer.

The conversations about exhaust are always interesting to me. Sound regulations are real, and growing at any number of tracks, so the prudent racer needs to find a solution. I've seen any number of interim solutions that did the job, just barely, and always the complaint is that it "costs horsepower." The solutions are out there - they just take work (and sadly) some expense. On our 650 HP Trans-Am car we hit upon a solution that struggled to blow 91 dB on a damp day using exhaust bits from Burns. By the way, according to the dyno, that package cost us no power. On my rotary I used a Mazdaspeed package combined with a simple turndown.

Some tricks and observations based upon experience:

1. Supertrapps don't work.

2. Walker makes some wonderful stuff at reasonable prices. Get the biggest one you can fit, or two slightly smaller ones if that works better, such as on Civics.

3. Burns is the schnizzle, and charges accordingly.

4. Often a turn-down mounted under the car and pointed at the ground works, but a sound engineer friend says just the opposite can happen - the sound/pressure wave echoes off the ground, back into the car, and that big body acts like an amplifier, making things worse. Experimentation is key. Radio Shack sells a decent dB meter for reasonable money. Buy one and know for sure.

5. Don't settle for "close enough." Weather can affect things - sound carries more in damp conditions than in dry. State of tune can change things as well. Case in point - a few years ago we had a collection of Spec Miatae get in trouble for sound at LRP. These were all cars that had raced there all year long with no problems, but suddenly were killing the meter. The problem turned out to be timing. It was a cool day, they were running more static lead to take advantage of the cooler weather, and on decel they were spiking the meter - a component of the engine sound was awful. Once they figured out that taking 1 or 2 degrees of timing out was the solution, all was well in the world.

I just wanted to defend Chris (civicminded)
He was nominated for but not voted in as
Vice-Chairman of EMRA.

Someone with a lot less experience was voted in .

nuff said.

On another note - NY safety track was chosen as a dual rotation track - clockwise & counter clockwise.

The schedule has races and points time trials both days
(no practice day).

To mix things up it should be run one way one day and then the opposite way the next day.
(That was the initial plan)

No reason not to do the weekend that way.
When people were surveyd at Summit Point on the NY Safety Track only ONE person did not wanto to run counter clockwise.

Is it pushing to get an answer on THAT track as well?
Do we need another forum topic opened up for this?

Tom M

I dont think there was a reason to defend anyone.
and as Chris stated above, he turned down the nomination
because he couldnt commit to the position.
so he was never there to vote for...
just to clarify that.

we are running the schedule as Tom set it up for this year..
NYST will run in both directions each weekend, cw one day and ccw the next
unless there is a glaring problem at the first event that would prevent us from doing it at the second event.
so no, nothing needed for that...



lets get back to exhaust.
Youre right Rob, it is real and is growing.
I think it does cost money, but if a limerock legal exh will net you the same
hp and tq #'s, one could just buy that. Instead of having two diff systems.
then the cost will be similar.
It is fun being loud and obnoxious tho

SBRacing wrote:No the schedule is finalized
Pocono is finalized

I was looking for input from everyone
And discussing ideas for future events
Sorry i thought that was clear

Whether an event is practice or points is part of the schedule. If you are discussing whether a practice day should count for points, the schedule is NOT final.

Oleg
what isnt clear about "discussing ideas for future events"
the schedule is finalized.
come on man, read the posts.
Mary posted the finalized schedule in another thread.
and I am asking for ideas and what people want to do.
for future events. that wont change anything for this years schedule.
I am going to copy and paste it here for you.

2013 SCHEDULE RACE/TIME TRIAL/FORMULA RACE

APRIL 13TH LIMEROCK PARK
SAT: TIME TRIAL 1PM - 6PM *TECH/ REGISTRATION OPENS 10 AM

MAY 4TH & 5TH POCONO SOUTH/EAST (NEW CONFIGURATION)
SAT: RACE/ 1HR ENDURO/ TT PRACTICE/ FORMULA CAR RACE-FRCCA
SUN: RACE/ TIME TRIAL/ FORMULA CAR RACE-FRCCA

JUNE 8TH LIMEROCK PARK
SAT: TIME TRIAL 1PM - 6PM *TECH/ REGISTRATION OPENS 10 AM

JUNE 22ND & 23RD NY SAFETY TRACK (NEW TRACK!)
SAT: RACE/ TIME TRIAL/ FORMULA CAR RACE-FRCCA
SUN: RACE/ TIME TRIAL/ FORMULA CAR RACE-FRCCCA

JULY 27TH & 28TH NJMP LIGHTNING COURSE
SAT: RACE/ TT PRACTIC/ FORMULA CAR RACE-FRCCA

AUGUST 24TH LIMEROCK PARK
SAT: TIME TRIAL 1PM - 6PM *TECH/ REGISTRATION OPENS 10 AM

SEPTEMBER 7TH & 8TH POCONO SOUTH/EAST COURSE
SAT: RACE/ 1 HR ENDURO/ TT PRACTICE/ FORMULA CAR RACE-FRCCA
SUN: RACE/ TIME TRIAL/ FROMULA CAR RACE-FRCCA

OCTOBER 12TH & 13TH NY SAFETY TRACK
SAT: RACE/ TIME TRIAL
SUN: RACE/ TIME TRIAL

NOVEMBER 9TH & 10TH SUMMIT POINT MAIN COURSE
SAT: RACE/ 4 HR ENDURO/ TT PRACTICE/ FORMULA CAR RACE-FRCCA
SUN: RACE/ TIME TRIAL/ FORMULA CAR RACE-FRCCA

this is the finalized schedule
I hope this helps.

SBRacing wrote:Oleg
what isnt clear about "discussing ideas for future events"
the schedule is finalized.
come on man, read the posts.
Mary posted the finalized schedule in another thread.
and I am asking for ideas and what people want to do.
for future events. that wont change anything for this years schedule.
I am going to copy and paste it here for you.

2013 SCHEDULE RACE/TIME TRIAL/FORMULA RACE

APRIL 13TH LIMEROCK PARK
SAT: TIME TRIAL 1PM - 6PM *TECH/ REGISTRATION OPENS 10 AM

MAY 4TH & 5TH POCONO SOUTH/EAST (NEW CONFIGURATION)
SAT: RACE/ 1HR ENDURO/ TT PRACTICE/ FORMULA CAR RACE-FRCCA
SUN: RACE/ TIME TRIAL/ FORMULA CAR RACE-FRCCA

JUNE 8TH LIMEROCK PARK
SAT: TIME TRIAL 1PM - 6PM *TECH/ REGISTRATION OPENS 10 AM

JUNE 22ND & 23RD NY SAFETY TRACK (NEW TRACK!)
SAT: RACE/ TIME TRIAL/ FORMULA CAR RACE-FRCCA
SUN: RACE/ TIME TRIAL/ FORMULA CAR RACE-FRCCCA

JULY 27TH & 28TH NJMP LIGHTNING COURSE
SAT: RACE/ TT PRACTIC/ FORMULA CAR RACE-FRCCA

AUGUST 24TH LIMEROCK PARK
SAT: TIME TRIAL 1PM - 6PM *TECH/ REGISTRATION OPENS 10 AM

SEPTEMBER 7TH & 8TH POCONO SOUTH/EAST COURSE
SAT: RACE/ 1 HR ENDURO/ TT PRACTICE/ FORMULA CAR RACE-FRCCA
SUN: RACE/ TIME TRIAL/ FROMULA CAR RACE-FRCCA

OCTOBER 12TH & 13TH NY SAFETY TRACK
SAT: RACE/ TIME TRIAL
SUN: RACE/ TIME TRIAL

NOVEMBER 9TH & 10TH SUMMIT POINT MAIN COURSE
SAT: RACE/ 4 HR ENDURO/ TT PRACTICE/ FORMULA CAR RACE-FRCCA
SUN: RACE/ TIME TRIAL/ FORMULA CAR RACE-FRCCA

this is the finalized schedule
I hope this helps.

Hi Cory,

Maybe to clarify we may want to say which direction we are going on which day for duel direction tracks....( i.e saturday is cw, sunday is ccw or vice versa) This will aid drivers setting up their cars etc etc .

Regards,

Alex E ( Lisca Rep )

The " Alex E. Rallye BMW / PitBullRacing car # 920 white BMW 128", 2011 BMW 128i M-sport / 6AT / Hankook RS3's / BMW Perf. Brakes / BMW Perf. CAI / M3 swaybar, better be set up for both lefts and rights. This track is no Lime Rock with a throwaway left turn. There are about as many lefts as there are rights, regardless of which direction you're going. 10 lefts and 7 lefts CCW, and 10 rights and 7 lefts CW, ........and lots of trees to welcome you. Hopefully you won't need the underwear checks.

civicminded wrote:The " Alex E. Rallye BMW / PitBullRacing car # 920 white BMW 128", 2011 BMW 128i M-sport / 6AT / Hankook RS3's / BMW Perf. Brakes / BMW Perf. CAI / M3 swaybar, better be set up for both lefts and rights. This track is no Lime Rock with a throwaway left turn. There are about as many lefts as there are rights, regardless of which direction you're going. 10 lefts and 7 lefts CCW, and 10 rights and 7 lefts CW, ........and lots of trees to welcome you. Hopefully you won't need the underwear checks.

NICE PIC !!!! Good point BTW never thought about it that way.. But i guess one would still like to know in advance...

and no wonder why i have issues some times........nobody told me that I needed to wear underwear !!!!!! jeez all those years........

Wonder where the pasing zones would be on this track for the TT guys? I'm thinking the front straight, turns 8 - 9, the sweeper, maybe 13 - 14, and 16 - 17. Looks like quite a busy track.