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    TRACK REPORT (POCONO)

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    Graham007

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    TRACK REPORT (POCONO)

    Post  Graham007 on Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:44 pm

    Laughing FRCCA member BIll Carol was at Pocono this morning watching an Indy car test day and reports
    That new asphalt was being put down over the base coat on the infield section of the new south / east course
    And that the concrete curbs were already in place at the corner apexes!
    I for one am looking forward to seeing and driving the new layout.
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    WebsterMR2

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    Location : Westminster, MD

    Pocono course map

    Post  WebsterMR2 on Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:42 pm

    anybody got the East/south course map? the link in the other posts is broken. would love to see the new layout.
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    Graham007

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    Re: TRACK REPORT (POCONO)

    Post  Graham007 on Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:07 pm

    Only thing I can find is on team pro-motion web site under ( tracks we ride ) on the list is Pocono
    With maps of the new road courses
    I think we are using NASCAR turn 1 which is not in their configurations
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    mx5

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    This is what I found for the track map

    Post  mx5 on Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:29 pm




    On another post,
    "We are going to run config 3 in the counterclockwise direction
    That is the "official" answer. "
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    quikgt

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    Re: TRACK REPORT (POCONO)

    Post  quikgt on Mon May 06, 2013 10:38 pm

    Who's running this show at EMRA? scratch First we're going to run the configuration above, counter clockwise, WITH the chicane.... AND IT'S OFFICIAL! Then we're not going to do the chicane, because the open wheeled guys were complaining. Then we're going to run clockwise because a few officials at EMRA don't like to go counter clockwise, even though it's the only CCW track that we run. Then someone deletes the hairpin from the East section. What about the other members, and their views? Shouldn't we have a plan and stick to it? Evil or Very Mad
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    Graham007

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    Re: TRACK REPORT (POCONO)

    Post  Graham007 on Tue May 07, 2013 9:38 am

    SAFETY always comes first so it was decided after an early morning test that running clockwise was the safest direction
    For ALL of us, this was the first visit to a new layout so making last minute changes should be expected
    The transitions from the infield to the main we're in my opinion not exepteble for a race track!
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    Dave Z

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    some additional thoughts

    Post  Dave Z on Tue May 07, 2013 2:31 pm

    Thank you Graham007 for that answer. I wasn't there as the decision was made to run clockwise but I did have these thoughts regarding the layout. One factor involved the number of corner stations that could be manned (or womaned in the case of Cally and Ginny). Using the hairpin may have required additional bodies. Those bodies have to make themselves available. I spent Saturday working with two rookie corner workers -- young fellows who ran with us at Lime Rock. Those two were not available for Sunday--and I was floating between stations doing photos and carrying a radio and flags and then helping on the TT timing crew which consisted of myself, 3 racers, one TT'er with a broken car and Dave Addiss.
    As for the hairpin itself -- I recall from times in the past when we used the East Course the hairpin was a focus of complaint--too slow, too go-kart or autoX like. I know I could spin my inside tire even in 4th while the turn really called for 2nd for acceleration out. Maybe the limited slip I installed would help now. But in any case I thought the course as we ran it flowed pretty well.
    As for the needs of the FRCCA crowd -- don't be derisive of them. Keep in mind their entries are helping to pay the freight. Lets Go Knicks --- Dave
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    Hi-Arc

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    Re: TRACK REPORT (POCONO)

    Post  Hi-Arc on Tue May 07, 2013 5:03 pm

    Will the direction and or layout be changed for the next visit to Pocono East/South?
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    miniracer

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    Re: TRACK REPORT (POCONO)

    Post  miniracer on Tue May 07, 2013 6:04 pm

    Coming in and out of the infield was pretty harsh on my car. Think that will be fixed?
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    Graham007

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    Re: TRACK REPORT (POCONO)

    Post  Graham007 on Tue May 07, 2013 6:19 pm

    My e-mail reply from Pocono was that is as good as it is going to get so no plans to try and improve it!
    They are planning on putting up a wall so that the hairpin and the new in-field straight can be run together
    So that may be on option?
    Dave I think the hairpin will be much better than it was in the past due to the track being wider?
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    PiTBULLRACING

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    Re: TRACK REPORT (POCONO)

    Post  PiTBULLRACING on Tue May 07, 2013 6:47 pm

    quikgt wrote:Who's running this show at EMRA? scratch First we're going to run the configuration above, counter clockwise, WITH the chicane.... AND IT'S OFFICIAL! Then we're not going to do the chicane, because the open wheeled guys were complaining. Then we're going to run clockwise because a few officials at EMRA don't like to go counter clockwise, even though it's the only CCW track that we run. Then someone deletes the hairpin from the East section. What about the other members, and their views? Shouldn't we have a plan and stick to it? Evil or Very Mad

    a) Voluntees are running the show at EMRA. and they are doing there best. It isnt perfect and it never will be but sloway and surely a grasp is being had on all aspects of the club and espically on an event day.

    b) Congratulations all.. Pocono South east in the configuration that we ran it was the first time EVER in history that it was used. NOBODY knew what was in store for us with street cars. a decision to change the direction was made..and thats the ugly job of a governing board ( not all decisions are cute and cuddly) personally...having beaten the left front strut of my car to submission on the transition going clockwise for over 40 laps, I wouldnt have even wanted to see what the transition making a left onto the infield ( think about it ) from the speed of the straight would have done.. I Think it was the correct call...and we are all much better monday morning quarterbacks..arent we.. ( think of the amount of cars that would have possibly been in the grass making that transition at speed... pale

    c) open wheel guys had concerns. all issues taken into account including Dave's comments on corner workers.

    d)Track map provided by the track did NO justice to the actual corners.. I drove the hair pin at lookey see speed and to tell you the truth it would have been fun....its a nice flowing one. I liked it. May be next time.. again Daves comments on the corner workers comes into play..

    Timing loop issues aside It was a very good day. sunny / clear skies/ nobody got hurt, except for a radiator, a head gasket, and a couple of corded tires, oh yeah and a splitter or 2 that went for a little lawn mowing excercise..Smile clown

    Although timing and scoring killed themselves trying to get our loop working its a shame that POCONO didnt have the forthought to bury an antenna under the track for timing. Its a shame that our tapped down antenna did not survive. i commend the last minute call to go "analog" and stop watch us..and BTW my time by the stop watch was 1:30.99 >>guess what my "harrys lap timer" recorded..... 1:30.99 <<< no lie.. i have it saved on my phone!!!!!

    Feel free to comment, but remeber when one comments about could-a would-a should-a... if you think it can be smoother ..volunteer to help out and be that missing corner worker that we could have used in the hairpin....

    Thank you for understanding and being part of a great club ..

    Alex E.

    p.s if the chicane was used it would have wasted such a beautiful high speed turn.. we dont get to do that very often.. not enough local track have that kind of surface and width to handle the speeds were were going in a safe manner for all ( including leased BMW's with no roll cage..) alien
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    civicminded

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    Re: TRACK REPORT (POCONO)

    Post  civicminded on Tue May 07, 2013 11:06 pm

    Re: Civicminded -- a couple of answers

    Post SBRacing on Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:02 pm


    Quickgt
    Yes we run south and east in the ccw direction as we always have, i forgot to put the second c there, my bad. The point is this isa completlely new configuration that we have never run before so really it hasnt been run in either direction and all im saying is we can do it however we want. I thought it was setup for cw from the track maps tom gave me but I was wrong and they told me it can be run in either direction. Most want to run ccw and config 3 seems the most popular option so this what we are going to run.
    Also we will be running NYST in both directions.

    I speak solely for myself unless I post an answer as official. Which is what I did. I dont speak for any other board member
    So please dont assume that I do or post up speculation as to what you think "some board members" want.
    I think you can tell from my posts that im trying to see what the drivers want.

    We are running configuration 3 in the counter clockwise direction. That is what you should expect
    And there wont be any change.
    The input from pocono will be for future discussions of the event after we see how this track layout is
    And really be able to discern for ourselves what if any safety issues there are and how the pavement
    Transitions are, if we like the layout or want to try a different one etc. asking the drivers and corner workers
    To see how it is.

    I hope this helps






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    Cory C.
    ST?? #??

    Does anyone remember the above quote? I couldn't make it to the meet at Pocono last weekend, but can't believe that the course was changed after all the previous discussions about track configurations. We made the same transitions at Pocono North, into the right hander from the straight with the same results, and they are at all the transitions into the infield. As for last minute changes, the deletion of the hairpin is a change. Going CW is a different track completely. I'd like to think if I paid to run at one course, that I'd get what I paid for. If one of those corded tires blew out while going into South from East at speed, we wouldn't be having this discussion about safety. Whose idea of safety is this?

    "I wouldnt have even wanted to see what the transition making a left onto the infield ( think about it ) from the speed of the straight would have done." .... Alex. If you had tried turning into the East infield at that speed, you'd have ended up somewhere in the garages.
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    Oleg P

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    Re: TRACK REPORT (POCONO)

    Post  Oleg P on Wed May 08, 2013 1:46 am

    Changing orientation/layout of the course for safety reasons is legitimate, but so far I have not seen an appropriate explanation of what made the counterclockwise configuration unsafe.

    Similarly for the infield change - what I heard at the event was basically "FRCCA did not want to or could not run the portion of the track that was taken out". Why? Who knows.

    Changing track layout because someone did not like hairpins after track layout is supposedly set in stone is bad form. And it is not a hairpin indeed, more a low speed sweeper.

    As far as corner stations, I saw more than one empty corner station in the infield on Sunday which was somewhat concerning. It was known how many corner stations were on track before the event, right?
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    quikgt

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    Re: TRACK REPORT (POCONO)

    Post  quikgt on Wed May 08, 2013 7:46 am

    Posts here are not about Monday morning quarterbacking but about expressing legitimate gripes. Anyone reading posts on this forum would have seen the bias towards CW tracks. Why was the course changed to CW? Was there an accident that caused the change? Why should anyone be surprised to see the officials change the direction?
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    PiTBULLRACING

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    Re: TRACK REPORT (POCONO)

    Post  PiTBULLRACING on Wed May 08, 2013 7:52 am

    Oleg, perdonally i think if we ran ccw and had to come pff the banking and turn left onto tne infield dont u think it would have been worse than turning right on to the banking? It was bad emough but i think low cars including frcca would have gotten torn up. No ? The hairpin delete is another issue. I dont think we had enough cornerworkers but thats just me im not sure
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    Dave Z

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    Who knows? we know

    Post  Dave Z on Wed May 08, 2013 9:10 am

    Oleg wrote " "FRCCA did not want to or could not run the portion of the track that was taken out". Why? Who knows."
    Actually we do know. Andy from FRCCA came to the last board meeting to make a report on a moderate speed test he was able to do at the track. What he found was that the open wheel cars sit too low to make the transition from the tunnel turn straight to the infield without bottoming out. We gave some consideration to having the FRCCA run strictly on the infield but the logistics of moving cones and corner stations would have been confusing and time consuming. The same logic applied to the thought of having FRCCA run CW and EMRA CCW. What we'll have to/want to do at our next event there is open to discussion. While the number of corner workers was sparse and some stations were left unmanned the track was covered adequately for sight lines between those stations that were occupied. More workers certainly would have been better -- but to get to "better" people will have to step up. -- Dave
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    Oleg P

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    Re: TRACK REPORT (POCONO)

    Post  Oleg P on Wed May 08, 2013 10:08 am

    PiTBULLRACING wrote:Oleg, perdonally i think if we ran ccw and had to come pff the banking and turn left onto tne infield dont u think it would have been worse than turning right on to the banking?
    In the direction we were going the East transition was worse than the South transition. Would the same apply the other way? Maybe, I don't know for sure as I have not driven the track backwards. Have you driven it backwards?

    The most important thing that I want, and I'm sure others too, is for EMRA officials to explain WHY they are making changes. We are getting there, slowly, at least on this topic.
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    Graham007

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    Re: TRACK REPORT (POCONO)

    Post  Graham007 on Wed May 08, 2013 10:42 am

    The FRCCA were not the reason for the change of direction safety was! the transision is not acceptable in either
    Direction however approaching it in the slower direction was just common sense
    I believe the reason for eliminating the hairpin or whatever you want to call it was the limited # of corner workers
    And the lack of protected corner stations
    As others have already said we were the first to use the new south-east course so to expect things to be perfect
    First time out would have been optermistic at best
    We learn from it and move on
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    quikgt

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    Re: TRACK REPORT (POCONO)

    Post  quikgt on Sat May 11, 2013 8:49 am

    "We learn from it and move on". I hope the officials will learn to be more sensitive to the needs of the members. Are members expected to grin and bear it? Only on the day of the meet, were we told that there were course changes. This is unacceptable. There was some discussion prior to the meet as to the course change. This is what the forum is for. Let us know. There could also be some discussion at the drivers meeting, about where, when, and why, the changes are taking place. According to Graham007, "The transitions from the infield to the main we're in my opinion not exepteble for a race track!" They were used anyway, just in a different direction. Why wasn't there an attempt to run at South/east infield, without the Nascar banking, if the transitions were a problem, and safety was an issue?

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